Ok, I had to think about that a bit, but once I worked it out it made sense. So they are saying the process of getting there is what makes all the difference, even if the “end result” looks the same on paper, so to speak.

Lace, I found an answer to your question at Submissive Guide!

Detachment is what a lot of bottoms do during sub space, but that isn’t how you get there. If you detach you can’t get the feel good chemicals flowing through your body and aiding your ascent to sub space.

Ah. Well, agreed, except that I tend to think messing up is inevitable, so I would lay more stress on forgiveness.

And you are seriously tempting me to play a game of one-downmanship. How can anyone have less exposure to different doms’ styles than me?

Every session is created by the dom and the sub. What the dom does is always going to be in response to the sub’s reactions.

Also, it’s still sex. The dom may not say so, if he’s worried about not sounding dommy enough, but he’s bound to be trying to please the sub as much as she’s trying to please him. If only to get return business.

I did say all reactions are good, but yes, I wasn’t thinking of boredom, irritation, bounced-out-of-the-mood, etc. Those aren’t good.

If I got those reactions, from someone who’d been keen and interested before we started, I’d be inclined to think it’s much more likely my fault than hers. Like I read her reactions wrong, like I jumped too fast from one intensity to the next level … Or I didn’t establish a set and setting that allowed her to feel psychologically comfortable in the midst of all the other discomfort. That’s mostly the dom’s job, I think: to not fuck it up.

It’s the sub’s job to offer information and warnings beforehand, so the dom should know what’s most likely to bounce you out of the scene. To help him not fuck it up.

(One thing that strikes me, while thinking about this, is how little I know, directly, about what other doms do in sessions. I don’t mean techniques, I mean style and intangibles like that. Most of what I know is extrapolation from myself, plus what subs tell me.)

Hah! Well, I must admit that the “dammit” was editorialising. But I can tell you that most doms do seem to say this. Sometimes it’s clearly intended to be reassuring: “All you have to do is give me real reactions.” But that does have implications.

And in my case it is not being frozen with fear, which would be a fun reaction (as you point out). I can’t describe it any better than what I said, getting suddenly kicked out of the submissive headspace into a totally vanilla observer headspace. When I’m like that I’m not scared. I’m a little bored and impatient with an unpleasant stimulus. It is no fun at all for me. Does that make more sense?

I have a feeling that a dom who considered all reactions to be equally good might just roll with the challenge and hit harder. And if I enjoyed being a brat then I daresay that would make everyone happy. But since my submission is kind of the opposite of brattiness, it just triggers an extremely unpleasant feedback loop. So I am definitely of the opinion that some reactions are more equal than others.

But I would agree that they are going to be different for everybody. My danger signals aren’t going to be the same as other people’s.

That includes silence and immobility. Everybody’s different and therefore every submissive is different, and some submissives react to my best overlording and painful oppression by going somewhere inside themselves, and going still and silent.

From de-briefings afterwards, I’ve learnt not to worry and to recognise that as one way of going into floaty subspace (which isn’t a single thing, as far as I’ve seen; it takes many forms). Being still is a reaction; quite a strong one.

A lot of screaming and complaining and wriggling around trying to escape (studiously avoiding the words “yellow” and “red”) is the opposite of that, I guess. But … that’s usually an excuse for the dom to put down the insurrection and turn those squeals into “yes Sirs”, and that’s also highly enjoyable.

Abject gratitude is good, too. Most of us have enough ego to think that’s (almost) entirely right and reasonable, and completely hot anyway.

So, thinking about it, I’m damned if I can think of a submissive reaction or lack of reaction that doesn’t please and reward me, and presumably most other doms.

You talked about being too scared to react. If you’d frozen with fear, the dom should probably pick that up if you’re too gone to mention it yourself, and give you reassurance, including salient reassurance, until you’re unstuck again.

There aren’t any unreal reactions. Unless you started gurning and groaning like a porn star before he’d even touched you, in which case you’d be taking the piss. So I think the fault is with the dom shouting, “Gimme real reactions, dammit!” That’s … Doing It Wrong.

Yikes, what a scary thought! I shall submit it to Mind-Wrangler.

Unfortunately I have no opinion myself because I don’t go into I’m-not-here-subspace, just please-let-me-please-you-please-please-please submissive headspace. Your comment makes me wonder if that’s such a bad thing!