Probably. To quote a phrase from our other misunderstanding thread, “I experienced too much of that kind of pain” – so I probably can’t grok what you’re using the word to describe. To quote myself, “qualities rather than judgements” – worthiness can’t ever be freed from the latter, but we probably agree about desirable qualities (and recognising that anyone can fall short of them, however “good” they are).

I think we may have to agree to disagree on the word “worthy”. But I think your explanation makes it clear that that doesn’t mean we disagree on the more important things like taking responsibility.

> “I feel very strongly that one has to be worthy of power.”

I find this statement very troubling. I think for me “worthy” is too close a synonym of “deserving” or “owed”, which in turn leads to a key problem with privilege, namely, “entitlement”. That in turn is linked to the conception of women as the “gatekeepers” of sex, who are supposed to grant it only to “worthy” men (and if they choose men deemed “unworthy”, it goes bad for the women, with slut-shaming at the bottom end of that range of punishments).

So to say, “be worthy of power” or “be worthy of privilege” – well, that line of thinking when I was younger led me down the “Nice Guyism” path. The only way to win is not to play, but instead to be the best me I can be without reference to “worthy” or “deserving”.

I think this post probably captures a lot of the rest of the problems I have with the idea of “worthy” as a requirement.

The final thing is that it seems to create a barrier to human interaction: just as “don’t even try to date if you’re suffering from depression” – if you’re short of some “worthiness” standard, don’t bother trying to be a Dom? In either case, I would be condemned to a life of solitude and loneliness. But by not worrying about “worthy” I was able to cast off guilt and accept responsibility. By not worrying about “depression” I was able to just get on with not letting it control or ruin my life.

> “So I’m really hoping we just have different associations with the word ‘worthy’?”

Put bluntly, my association of the term “worthy” is wrapped up in its negation, which translates as, “all the reasons why you’re not allowed to be happy”. Hence choosing to opt out of the game.

Have you had time to digest? :-) I’m actually a little surprised because I see those things as much more relevant to submission. Domming, at least the control-oriented version, is an active role and there are all kinds of things you can learn to DO. Whereas my frustration in seeking out education for subs has been partly assuaged by the realisation that the main thing I need to learn is how to ACCEPT. And most of what we know about that comes from spirituality traditions, it’s not the kind of thing people hold BDSM classes about.

Then again, I can see that mindfulness is useful to everyone! And awareness and compassion are DEFINITELY qualities I want in a dom. So you are right after all!

1) Yes!

2) Maybe this is another area where we would rather use different words for the same thing? Domming is a position of power, and I feel very strongly that one has to be worthy of power. Responsibility, commitment, sheer ability to get the job done. And since masculinity is an identity that carries privilege, I respect those who strive to be worthy of it, who feel a duty to those who don’t have that privilege. That’s part of what I was trying to describe in my post on Condescension or Kindness from Above.

It pains me very deeply that I don’t get that vibe from gender relations here in America. It’s much more like men feeling worthy of respect from other men, as you say. It’s almost like people believe so fundamentally in equality here that they cannot bring themselves to accept that they have privilege, and therefore the duty to use it well. What I keep seeing in young men here is that they think they can reject their privilege and interact with women as equals. Hah. Denial is not the answer.

So I’m really hoping we just have different associations with the word ‘worthy’? And of course I realise you don’t live here and may have a different experience, it just sounds uncannily similar.

1/. I think BDSM, and especially D/s, as a whole tends to function in very koan-like ways (not coming from a Buddhist background, I don’t want to claim they actually are koans as such, but that “apparent contradiction” seems so integral to so much of BDSM, no wonder we love discussing What It Is That We Do so much!) It’s a very spiritual experience, even as casual play, for that reason.

2/. I have quite a troubled relationship with the concept of “worthiness”; I think it can be quite a harmful ideal or objective, especially as it’s wrapped up in the ways masculinity is used to punish men (by other men, especially – feminist-style analysis!) For me a big part of my development on emotional courage and vulnerability has been to become okay with not being, or needing to be, “worthy” (and Lord knows, I’m not there yet!) but accepting what’s offered anyway (as either D or s – which is the other side of the emotional coin from “He’s ignoring me right now, but that’s okay.” and often co-exists with that, I suspect!) So talking about “the dom’s worthiness” seems awkward to me, and I would prefer to see it described in terms of qualities rather than judgements (like Sub strength is a quality, not a judgement)