Yes! The ultimate good is mutual well-being, not equality. (And sorry about the long delay in replying!)

Mollyxxx

Um. Er. I am constitutionally averse to praise of this kind from male strangers. It’s not just that I don’t believe it, I also bristle like a threatened cat. I’ll have to think about why. But I AM delighted to hear that you’re bursting with blog goodness. Now there’s a compliment worth having!

First up, my wife, who writes erotica, told me about your blog, so as time has allowed, I’ve been peeking here and there, and I’m so impressed with your perspective I’m bursting with it. I’ve never encountered a masochist who ‘gets it’ so thoroughly, who’s so well considered. Major kudos to you for your excellent work!

Secondly, in response to this post, (speaking as a sadist), it’s easy to argue that a bottom has a veto, and I think that’s where the major perception comes from, even if that veto is abeyed ahead of time (“Sir, please accept my safeword….”). You’re clearly right about the exercise of power, though — when someone I’m with is tied, gagged and busy experiencing what I’m doing to her, she has no choices, no power. That discretion is all mine. Yet you’re also so very correct that by giving herself to me so thoroughly, she exercises the power to please me via the gift of herself.

So very impressed with you.

There is nothing I can say except LOL and yes!

But Wm Blake scrawled, in a notebook:

“What is in women that men most desire?
The lineaments of satisfied desire.
What is it in men that women most desire?
The lineaments of satisfied desire.”

I’ve always liked that. All the things you can do to your partner’s body, and have them do to you are wonderful, but I think most people want above all to hear and see in the lines of their face the signs of their partner’s pleasure and satisfaction. That may not be the explicit goal of the scene, but if it’s missing then most of the emotional satisfaction isn’t there either.

So of course doms want to make sure their sub is pleasured.

It’s just that the way we do that can be complicated. Banning the sub from coming sounds like a way of stopping her from having pleasure, but (for many subs) that kind of control over them is incredibly pleasurable, sensually and emotionally.

As for giving a submissive what she wants, if the submissive is too obvious about it, I (and many doms, I think) will note what she’s hinted at, and not give it to her. But some time later, when she’s forgotten, or thinks you have, then you give her that … thing she hinted she’d like.

The idea is that she feels the dom is paying attention and is on her side, but she feels (accurately) that she can’t make anything happen or not happen at any given moment.

So the signals the submissive gives, about her reactions definitely affect the dom. The dom often tries to disguise the extent to which this is true, so she doesn’t feel in control.

Overall, I’d say the submissive gives information that the dom uses, not training.

(Well, there was a girl who’d put on knickers with a monkey-print pattern and wander round the house in them when she wanted a spanking. It always worked in no time at all. Was I trained? Um… maybe.)

True, but … I don’t think I can use the word “train” in situations where I have less power! But I know it is pretty normal for people to differ on connotations like this, so I’m happy that we don’t disagree on the essential understanding of the dynamic.

I think maybe we do use words differently. Here’s the way I think I would describe it: Your will (drawing from what you’ve said) is to submit, and to have someone to submit to. Someone who does that naturally shows you how to train them to fit well with that will. The end result of that training is the relationship you describe. And they are, of course, training you to their will at the same time. The two processes combine to construct that unequal power between you.

I am delighted to be called out! I still wouldn’t describe it as Training Doms to My Will, but I think we just use words differently.

I have worried that my post gives the impression of an EQUAL power exchange. In my case, it’s really not. My partners don’t use all the extra power they have over me during a scene, but it’s there. In almost every way, it’s harder for me to influence what’s happening. It’s not an equal relationship during that space of time, and I find that it takes hard work from both sides to balance the power again afterwards. Oh well, maybe one day I’ll find someone who will let me live comfortably at the bottom of the seesaw. :)

I don’t think anyone has said Doms “should” do things they don’t enjoy. Equally, I have heard many subs talk about being willing to try (or undergo) pain/play types that they don’t like, because for them there is some other pay-off.

As a Dom, I’ve done a lot of “BDSM activities that are part of the sub’s kink and not their own” and sometimes I discover something I wouldn’t have expected. Other times, I discover that it’s not something I enjoy. If I really dislike it, then it doesn’t happen again; other times it might be something I save until I particularly want to give a special treat. I do this because the power to give pleasure is as much a part of being Dom as the power to torment. (And of course, it’s part of the power a sub has, too).

At the broadest interpretation, the range of kink in a relationship is simply “whatever neither partner has vetoed”.

– – –

As for training a Dom: “Just watch what it does naturally. All you have to do is connect those responses to your own will.”

You say, “I want your pleasure to come from my suffering.” By the same token, a sadist wants you to suffer for them. A Dom wants to have control over you. That’s, “what it does naturally”.

So, “when I bare my soul via user manual and feedback, I really cannot deny that they are learning.” – that is the second part. You are connecting their responses to your will. You’re giving a Dom the means to have most effective control (because it accords with your nature and will); you are giving the sadist the best way to appreciate your suffering (because, again, they can get the best feedback to appreciate your suffering).

As you say in the OP, “All the specifics are, however temporarily, in someone else’s hands.”

Goodness, I’ve NEVER thought in terms of training a dom! But when I bare my soul via user manual and feedback, I really cannot deny that they are learning. Hmm. Well, I concluded a very long time ago that the very same act can be dominant or submissive depending on the locus of power control. So I guess I’d rather say they are training on this talking lab specimen, not under my tutelage? :)

Having said that, I think there is some truth to the “sub in charge” paradigm in some people’s minds. Doms often seem willing to try BDSM activities that are part of the sub’s kink and not their own – but we are not so happy to turn around and say that subs should reciprocate by undergoing pain that they don’t like. I think this is a double standard arising from our discomfort with power dynamics. I definitely agree that Good, Giving and Game puts subs at a greater risk of being traumatised than doms, and that more caution is therefore indicated. But I think that still leaves some fun territory to explore, given enough trust and experience (and this qualifier is very very important!).

Thank you for the rec! I have added it to my Goodreads.

Power exists because we choose to create it, and because something calls us to do so. The thought about, “A good specimen will teach you how to train it. Just watch what it does naturally. All you have to do is connect those responses to your own will.” is, I think, spot on for both bottoms and tops (I suspect you intended it to refer to both?)

The passage about how you tell your partner so much, reminded me of a similar passage in Staci Newmahr’s book, Playing on the Edge, where she talks about how she could use her responses to direct a scene (although I observed when I read it that it needs to be calibrated between the two – if someone goes limp and/or silent in a scene, I have a tendency to get panicky). She also talked about being a “bemused observer of her own reactions”, reporting wondering whether she was going to safeword or not, as though it was out of her own control to do so.

Fascinating thoughts, all of this post.