I’m in agreement with everything Jaime said, and also this remark. Definitely didn’t “do it wrong”, it’s just that there are layers and layers and layers!

Oh good. Then I’m glad I provided the opportunity! Nice of you to reassure me.

And long responses are an honour. I just don’t feel like I have the experience to agree or disagree with your general observations. I do heartily endorse the first and last paragraphs though!

Hmm. I bow to your experience. But I’m starting to worry that I did it wrong if both you and Valery North felt the need to clarify this much. I think I’ll add a note under the safeword section.

So if the submissive isn’t happy and needs to stop, then “stop”, or “red”, or “no!”, or anything on those lines, should work. If it was theatre and the sub’s really ok, then the scene can continue.

If a submissive wants the fun of screaming and begging me to stop, secure in the knowledge that I won’t (unless she uses the real word), it’s best let me know that beforehand.

That usually works out well, when starting. Later, a dom can be less formally careful, because he or she knows more about the sub’s limits and reactions.

For punishment, when it’s a long-term relationship, my rhetoric is that there’s no safeword, and I decide when she’s had enough. That’s the rhetoric: the reality is that I watch her carefully to make sure she’s okay and handling it. Tears count as part of “okay”. Panic, or shutting down is not okay.

The shutting down thing is complicated. If it’s quietly going floaty into subspace that’s fine; if it’s, “the world is terrible and I am not in my body; I’m not here at all”, that’s not fine.

But it’s about knowing the other person and having experience together. You start slow and learn how that person reacts. You can still give a strong experience without heading into safeword territory.

Which is why I didn’t believe Jian Ghomeshi’s story. Even if it wasn’t for the women who said that he started hitting and choking them without consent.

But he’s claiming he’s doing bdsm with safewords and consent. And you don’t start a bdsm relationship with face-smacking and choking, unless you’ve done some serious discussion beforehand. Which it’s clear he hadn’t done.

Face-smacking and choking are big on the internet, and I think that’s why he started there. Without discussion. I guess he imagined it’d be a nice surprise.

I don’t think they’re especially big with submissive women. Some like that, but they come up as a hard limit with a lot of submissives I’ve met. “No cutting or blood, no scat, no hitting my face, no choking.”

Personally I don’t do throat choking, not even if I’m asked for it. I just think it’s too damn dangerous. I might hold my palm over her mouth and pinch her nose, for a few seconds at a time, if I got hints that she wanted breath play.

But seizing and squeezing the throat: I’ve been a nurse (psychiatric, but still a nurse), and I Will Not Do That.

I will do face-slapping. It’s a good way of shocking a submissive and “dropping” her, but a dom has to be confident that the sub knows him/her well, and feels bedrock secure that the dom likes her a lot, and has never been angry with her or disliked her. Because it feels much closer to domestic violence, for a lot of women, than to sexy kinkiness.

So it’s not the first bdsm thing you do, unless the submissive specifically said, “Nah, getting spanked or tied up or having to serve bores me: just punch my face and choke me, that’s all I want.”

And I’ve never met a submissive who’s said that. I’m pretty sure Jian Ghomeshi hasn’t either.

In fact, it doesn’t seem that he’s met any submissives, only women with whom he thought he could get away with stuff. Glad he was wrong.

This is ALL spot on. Thank you for refining my fumes! You give good comment. :)

(Also, it’s often possible for non-verbal cues accompanying stop/no/don’t to make the difference between “I like being able to say this” and “I really mean it”)

I think for any responsible top, “Huh, that feels weird.” is a world apart from no/stop/don’t, because most things aren’t supposed to – it sends a warning signal that doesn’t belong in a roleplay/scene. The exception is when someone is new to sensation-play and is experiencing things for the first time, in which case “what’s that feeling?” might be expected. Personally, when bottoming I actually need to be able to say “that feels weird” without stopping things (although slowing down would be wise), because I’m probably figuring out my emotional responses; for weird that needs a stop, I’d probably choose “wrong” or “not quite right”.

As for Ghomeshi, I entirely agree with your PS. As I’ve seen it reported, there are classic techniques of abusers in his behaviour.