Thank you! I’m glad it makes sense even to vanillas, I didn’t expect that.

It’s heartwarming that you think of domming primarily as giving!

And I’m glad that we think the same way about permission to use honorifics. I haven’t actually discussed my rationale with any of my doms and I always get the impression they think I’m just asking for kicks. It’s lucky that they are the people who have permission to treat me like I’m shallow. :)

“That’s why I always ask for permission to use an honorific. For me it represents a willingness to give,”

I got this far, thinking that you meant “willingness to give” on the part of the Dominant, and thinking it was so true, in the context of the OP especially. I’ve been struggling to put into words a response to the post, but that one snippet sort of made it all make sense in such a small space! Made sense of why I feel put-upon when a sub uses an honorific I haven’t agreed to.

“… and any ethical dom will realise that means they have to be responsible about how much to take.”

Is also true. So much wisdom in the thread :-)

Yes to kindness and self-control and trust! I guess I would only add what you said in your initial comment, that the kindness might not be apparent to onlookers. I think I respond to a very overt level of kindness, and it’s possible that others might not like it that way. Laura Antoniou has written that she likes to have the whip thrown at her after a tough scene and told to pull herself together – it shows respect and trust in her as a bottom. But I think nobody wants a top/dom who does this unthinkingly. A one-note bell, so to speak.

Oh wow, you have just helped me put my finger on what I hated about someone I was paired up with in a hands-on class. I love our conversations!

“Kindness is when I know it’s not just role-play, even if it’s for a limited space and time.”

Yes – exactly! Kindness is the difference between people who play at dominance and submission, and people who have seriously considered what it is to be dominant or submissive. A dominant who can be kind, as well as perfectly cruel, (often at the same time), can be trusted. One who doesn’t wield power with control, grace and individuated subtly, well.. I have a hard time seeing them as worthy of a submissive’s devotion or trust.

As for superiority, I’m not aghast at all! In fact, I think that makes perfect sense! Superiority needs to be earned. I see so many Doms, (some babies, but many experienced enough to know better), behave as if the fact that they’re holding a crop entitles them to respect. It doesn’t. If you wish to be treated as a superior, you need to actually *be* superior, and you can only do that by respecting the demands that being a superior entails. I want fealty because fealty, at it’s most basic level, recognizes my superiority in that power dynamic, and that superiority is something I take great pains to actively cultivate. A sub who requests permission to use an honorific displays a keen awareness and respect for that dynamic, and thus the Dom’s (ideally) cultivated superiority. That is gold. *That* brings out the instinct both to hurt and to protect – not everyone does.

No rush on the post, btw! I’ll love reading it whenever you write it. In the meantime, you’ve opened up a can of worms for me with this article! It’s wonderful. It’s fascinating and it resonates. I’m so very much of the same mind from the other, dominant side of the coin.

Thank you!

Yes! That’s why I always ask for permission to use an honorific. For me it represents a willingness to give, and any ethical dom will realise that means they have to be responsible about how much to take.

And thank you for getting at this thing that makes kindness so special! Hurting me is power; choosing whether to hurt me is one more level up. I had the word ‘real’ in an earlier draft. I shouldn’t have censored myself. Kindness is when I know it’s not just role-play, even if it’s for a limited space and time.

You know, I have a whole page of notes on the blog post I promised to write for you, on what subs value in a dom. But it boils down to a one-word answer: superiority. You’re probably aghast to hear that, but I think that really is how it works. I got the idea from david stein, who said at the same time that different subs value different dimensions of superiority. For me the attraction comes from intellectual brilliance, but the trust comes from moral strength. I think that’s why kindness is so very meaningful to me. And from what you say about responsibility and fealty, I wonder if you think the same way, even if the word ‘superiority’ might stick in the craw?

Argh, I need to just write that blog post. After this blasted Dec 1 deadline!

(I feel I should give you fair warning – you may have just inspired a post :) ).